Joe Rosenbaum: Expert Spotlight Throwback
Today we are reposting our conversation with Joe Rosenbaum. In this interview, Joe takes us on a journey through the transformative influence of AI on Experiential Learning, sharing insights on making education relevant for students, preparing them for the challenges of tomorrow.
In the third installment of our Expert Spotlight series, we have the privilege of hearing from Joe Rosenbaum—an extraordinary visionary who is shaping the future of education. A staunch advocate for STEM education, equity, and access, Joe currently holds multiple positions: Director of AI Education at Yeshiva University (YU) Global; Co-Founder and Chief Empowerment Officer for Synaptic Labs; and Chief Learning Officer for Synthminds.AI.
With a foundation in Macro Social Work and Psychology from Boston College and McGill University, along with a certification in Humane Technology, Joe's academic background complements his innovative and inclusive leadership. At YU, he is designing and instructing groundbreaking AI courses, while in his other roles, he helps bridge the knowledge gap for individuals and organizations, enabling them to harness AI effectively.
Joe previously worked for six years as the Project Director for United Way of Massachusetts Bay and Merrimack Valley’s BoSTEM Initiative, which increased access to afterschool STEM programming for underrepresented 6-8 graders in Boston.
What does Experiential Learning (EL) mean to you, and why is it important? What would it look like to truly learn experientially? In my previous role with BoSTEM, it was all about hands-on STEM learning. I believe it's the most effective way to learn. For most of history, [teaching] has been very much a “sage on the stage” approach, where you have a seminar-style class with someone trying to download information into you. It's a very rote focus—repeat what I've said essentially. And that's not really how humans learn. We can only memorize so many things at any given time, and even then, how applicable and generalizable is that memorized information? If you can only apply it to a one-to-one correlation of activities, you can't generalize to other things. The difference of experiential learning is that you actually have to do it, you can't just understand it on a base level, you really have to approach a problem and solve that problem. It's going to force you to throw out the book in some ways. Maybe [you’re] taught a recipe of how to do a thing, and that thing is not working. Are you going to say the thing is broken? Are you going to say the method is broken? It might be a combination of both, [but] you’ve got to figure that out. Doing a thing with your hands and having to solve a problem to me is how you really internalize knowledge, which can be used to transfer knowledge to other domains and aspects of your life in novel ways. Instead of thinking there's a right and a wrong way to do things, there's the understanding that there's a million ways to do things. [Experiential Learning] is more about how that knowledge aligns with what's interesting and engaging to you as you get to the final outcome or the final state of whatever problem you're trying to solve.
What do you believe is the best first step towards advancing the future of learning? What is necessary to make it successful? It’s tough because [we’re] in a very entrenched system with a lot of politics involved that moves at a snail's pace. Many students are being taught in a way that doesn't lend itself to experiential learning, which then reinforces the system itself. If kids aren't achieving, then there's pressure to do more of what's not working. If I had a bajillion dollars, I would pour it into out-of-school time programming, because these are the organizations that can be nimble, can be experimental, and can try different things without having to deal with all of the mishegoss related to the conventional school system. You’ve got to find innovative ways to reach students and do something outside of the ordinary that is relevant to their needs, interests and what's happening in the world. Kids are critical, intelligent, clever, and generally know exactly what they add. You really have to figure out what students are interested in, and then how you can convert that into an activity that is enriching, not just intellectually, but socio-emotionally.
One of my internships was at a charter school, helping out in classrooms on the student support team. There was one kid who had a lot of behavioral issues in the classroom, so I would often go and keep him engaged. I remember he was doing math, and he was freaking out about it. I looked at the worksheet, and he had a word problem which mentioned CDs! This kid [didn’t] know what CDs were as a third or fourth grader, so the entire context had been taken out and abstracted the problem to an even higher degree. He loved Star Wars, so I said, “Let's scratch this out and turn this to lightsabers”, and we were able to walk through the problem. The skills you're going to need no matter what are language comprehension, writing, communication skills, and math, but math within the frame of logic and being able to think through a problem step-by-step to come to a solution. I'm not saying go and change every math worksheet to mention Jedi, but how are we applying reading comprehension and communication in ways that are fun, interactive and relevant to students?
Who is the most influential mentor you have had throughout your life? What qualities did they impart that you continue to embody in your work? I'll start with my mom. Everyone says this about their mom, I know, but she's just the most empathetic, nicest, most gracious person in the world, and a lot of my emotional intelligence comes from her. Growing up a sensitive kid, I struggled to deal with complex emotions. She was really helpful at being a guide, and not just [through] modeling, but the way she would talk to me and help me explore my emotions. It’s huge [to have] someone who you can reliably trust and be honest with, because again, that's how you learn. Then there is the wild human being who is my dad. He’s incredibly creative, thoughtful, nice, friendly, and excited. Having those two as my role models and my mentors is 90% of why I am the way I am today. I certainly had teachers, professors and supervisors throughout my career, who have been instrumental in helping me learn things, do things, make mistakes, and come [back] from them. I've also had ones that were terrible, and did really mean things and weren't trustworthy. You learn stuff from them as well, as long as you're able to. A mentor doesn't always come in the shape of someone who teaches you what to do, a mentor can also come in teaching you what not to do.
How is AI influencing the Experiential Learning landscape? What are the obstacles and what are the rewards? The world is changing very, very quickly. [It’s] incredibly fragile, and there have been a combination of geopolitical and technological shifts in this last year that have made things even more unstable. It’s going to be very important to keep [a] human-centered approach moving forward. It's weird to be talking about that within AI, which is literally computations and machines, but [if you’ve] talked to ChatGPT, it does kind of feel like you're talking to someone. [AI] presents a whole slew of [issues] that could happen, and my concern, as much as I love this technology, is there are significant ethical questions which have been raised and not satisfactorily answered. These systems are full of bias and hallucinations—it'll just make stuff up. So if you aren’t developing AI literacy, it's a recipe for disaster, and educators aren't equipped to provide [that] literacy. Not even industry people are equipped. People just have no idea how this stuff works, the limitations and the potential harms that can be caused. My concern is that kids are going to use it, and they're not going to be taught how to use it responsibly, which is devastating because this is an incredible opportunity for equity. The fact that you can get online right now, create an account and use GPT 3.5 for free is unbelievable. I can learn anything from an expert in a conversational way without it costing a dime. What [could] end up happening, and what typically happens, is that the wealthy are going to get access to this stuff sooner. I don't know how much you know about how the [AI technology] works, but these things are trained on human knowledge and the internet. They are essentially predicting the most likely word in a series based on what you're saying to it, and then that gets folded into its training. So when a bunch of wealthy people who look like me are the ones providing 90% of the data, it's going to be a self-reinforcing issue with even more bias. What you really want is a diverse set of people using these tools to up-skill themselves and improve their lot in life. There's a lot of fear from people using these things because of the issues inherent in them, but by not using it, you're also contributing to the issue because you're not lending your voice to [it]. My goal in life now is to get out there and educate people about these tools, the capabilities, and the limitations, and help to solve some of these really big ethical questions so that we're working together to solve problems as a society rather than replacing our humanity with silicone and metal.
What drew you to your organization's mission? What drives you to activate this vision? I just started my job at Yeshiva university. They have an advanced certification program, and they’ve brought me on to develop their AI courses, starting with an intro to AI [and] literacy. I'm building out these courses for different niches too. So AI for business leaders, AI for marketing, AI for project management. Eventually I have it on the docket to do an AI for nonprofits. It's been very fun, [and] I'm using AI to help me draft it. The importance here is that I am setting the vision, the strategy, and the outline for what I want the learning objectives to be, and then I'm using AI to quickly generate the content and also incorporating chatbots into the actual learning itself. These are going to be mostly asynchronous courses, and I'm not gonna be able to answer everybody's questions all the time. But guess what? We're gonna have a bot who's trained on all the data of the course who can actually answer all of your questions in a way that is inquiry focused. It's not just giving you the answer, it's helping explore the answer with you or get [there] in a creative way.
I also have this company that I've co-found called Synthminds. The idea is focused on creating a community of AI enthusiast experts [who are] collectively getting to the heart and core of what responsible AI use is going to look like in the industry. We are having conversations [like] how can companies democratically think through their values as a company? How do you want to align that to a potential AI strategy? How can we not cut costs by cutting people, but instead, enable people to use AI so they can do more? We're about to see a shift where it's no longer about how we all get a piece of the pie, but how big can we bake the pie. I'm hoping that we can get out of the zero sum thinking, because there will be abundance.
Then there's my company that I started with my brother, which is Synaptic Labs. Our mission is powering equitable access to AI through education and integration. In my heart of hearts, I love STEM, and in teaching people STEM, seeing those light bulbs turn on. That's what I’ve found here with AI. Once people understand it, and once they're given permission to use it, you see the light bulb go off.